When good forums go bad .....
 

What goes around comes around what they despised and left they have become and nobody wants to see it.

Power hungry censors who just wanna apply rules for sake of BEING IN CHARGE. Lets coddle some really nasty dealers in the name of the "RULES". The truth gets swept under the rug and more people get screwed over and the dealer smiles all the way to to bank.

Don't upset the shills......they are so obvious to spot

if you are offended by a post skip it don't read it...how hard is that?? Nope they run to mods ....please Mr. Mod somebody has a view I (and my masters) don't agree with please censor or ban them

Their rules are now a farce:

This one is only if it don't offend the shills

2- Please have respect for differences in opinions with your fellow GTA members on your forums. After all, the forum is all about opinions

When did they admend the rules with a disclaimer "I do what I want the rest of stuff above is only rules when I feel like it"

Rules for you not us

FIN DOUBLE TALK

"Those that habitually disregard these rules may be banned from the GTA forums. The Forum owner and administrators reserve the right to amend the rules at any time and ban anyone for any reason."

Hope that brings many more into this forum

Heck. I couldn't even get a good explanation of how the rules applied sometimes. I got yelled at a couple times, and asked exactly how what I did was a violation, and was basically told they didn't have to bother explaining it, and if I did it again I would get banned. Heck they even blocked my IP address. I have to use a proxy to read it when I am doing research on something. A friend of mine told me he got warned for posting his opinion as his opinion and then backing it up with facts. Researchable provable facts. I told him to do what I should have done. Say. "Yessum Massah!" and then just don't contribute anything. They can't take offense if you keep your opinions (or your facts) to yourself.

That being said, whether we agree or not GTA is the biggest most popular airgun forum on the web. Maybe they do that by banning all dissenters so it seems like a peaceful community on the surface. I suppose from their perspective it doesn't matter. They are the biggest airgun forum on the web.

I read several others and most of them have a few new posts per day. GTA has several new posts per hour.

All I have to say to any mods or admins from GTA that might read this is. NPs still suck! LOL.

Grumpy, sorry for the language. Its kind of an inside joke. I used to pop in the chat at GTA every day or so and say, "NPs suck! But maybe not as much as they did yesterday."

now telling the truth is stirring the pot WTF

AOA MUST ONLY BE REFERED TO IN POSITIVE MANNERS TO APPEASE THE SHILLSS

Screw AOA and the horse they rode in on...

well that all done ......got banned outta GTA for saying buy from Jim and Nancy if you must have a FX

They said I was bashing AOA because I was pushing it as a way to moderate AOA profit and to protect buyers with Jims great customer service

Hopefully GTA will run a global command and delete anything I ever posted there I know it can be done. I can always go edit every picture I ever posted

Wtf!!!!
 

Invalid point, message retracted.

Hate to see you lose the GTA access over me
 

I know you enjoy it so don't lose access over my conflict

This should be loved what ya think ???
 

the truth about yellow JR

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/a...psda6zqcft.jpg

WOW that is a bunch of shit !!! Cannot believe they did that to you.

LOL. That's funny. I wouldn't have challenged them to delete all your posts though. I would have left them so people might wonder why you aren't there anymore.

I know they deleted all of Chevota's posts when they banned him. Claimed he was giving dangerous advice. I read his huge collection of tips and photos. Some of it is not the approach I would take, but none of it is what I would class as dangerous. What he was doing was educating people about how to fix problems with their springers on the cheap. Solutions that didn't involve buying parts from the mods over there. WHat's really funny is if you do a search for his name he still lives on at GTA in about 100 or more quotes by other people. I suppose now they will do a word censor on his name. LOL.

(Ok, I think Chevota's comments on oils might be a little dangerous in some contexts.)

They dont deserve any content I made
 

if everybody that leaves has content removed they will have a forum populated by shills and people not awake enough to realize they are shills. AOA shills got ran outta yellow finally and now have a fine home at GTA.

People like Hutnicks etc could not get their way on yellow but are having a field day at GTA

heck even a negative toward AOA post by the founder GENE got moved and locked to bury it

WTF it was obvious how he felt about AOA

GTA is on a decline without the founders the replacements are on a power head trip ...thanx ya are ruining a good thing

Yeah, I saw that. I thought it was hysterical. One advantage to hosting your own photos is you CAN change them. LOL.

GTA has fallen
 

the one question is:

When will AOA have their vendor gate on GTA I see it becoming a reality very soon

The Shills have the hooks set deep....

Don't look like to much to manipulate or buy influence now that Gene has left

Thankfully I never got into the politics over there but I too have seen a decline in the past few months...part of why I haven't been on as much.

Glad that the members there that I've gotten to know and trust have made they're way here so we can all help this grow to be the best AG site I the future!

yep alotta NEW interference like ..
 

in chat Gene told me on phone it was free fire zone say what ya want .....now the powers that have taken over want to yield power for the sake of power....now even chat is highly restricted in what you may speak about

We have lost Gene and now it looks like his idea of a forum will slowly be chipped away to nothing :(:mad:

Hey guys
Whats up Just wondering where you went
Tom

This Tom is still around and kickin

Not hardly...but everyone is free to an opinion.
We try to keep chat (and the forum) civilized where EVERYONE can feel comfortable there. No power mongers on the forum, but we have to maintain SOME form of control. Otherwise it would become the same as other unmentionable places. And most folks have NO clue what it takes to maintain a forum.

Not hardly....but more like when good forum members go bad...
 

When the chat first opened up it WAS a free for all zone. Gene and I were and are still on the same page with the forum and chat. Why else would he and Bob ask me to take it over. Hmmm....
Gene agreed that chat needed to be tweaked and even suggested we might do away with it. But he agreed to a few tweaks instead. Like setting an age requirement and not allowing improper content. After all, it IS an extension of the forum and our principles. It represents the forum and it's members.
Management anywhere will always be looked upon as "power mongers" by disruptive folks. Or those that just do not agree with policy.
That's fine, like I said, everyone is welcome to an opinion. Even the uninformed.
GTA has a foundation built by Gene Curtis and I had his blessing to take his dream and build on it. He agreed with everything we did, we adjusted things together as a team. With almost 14,000 registered members, whatever we do will not please everyone. We do the best we can....but again, most have no clue what that takes. Nor do they care.

I am Everyman buy everyman isn't me.
 

I see you are as arrogant, insulting, hypocritical, and self righteous as usual.

After my experience on GTA, and watching a how few conversations went that I was just reading I wasn't going to join another airgun forum. However, my opinion is you have no business on any airgun forum except GTA. There is a difference between conversation between people about topics they may sometimes get heated about with reasonable rules, and bullying and censorship for the sake of making your own job easier or tilting the truth.

I have run a forum before. Not as big as the one you run, but with a couple thousand members. I do understand how hard it can be. However there is an undercurrent on GTA of towing the line that is not present on many other forums. Forums bigger and more successful than yours. Ones that bring in more money than GTA as well. Forums that do not violate the law. Even many that are biased are atleast honest about it.

FYI: For anybody else reading this. Make no mistake. GTA brings in a few thousand a month. Well it did several years ago. It may bring in more now.

I am not here to debate. I am stating my opinion as somebody who has read GTA for many years. As somebody who has read many forums and operated one. As somebody who has been online since ARPANET. As somebody who ran a multi-line BBS before the net was available to the GP. My opinion is based on observation. I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose by making this post. You however might have something to gain, not by trying to argue with or control a faceless nameless everyman, but by hearing the message and understanding. By realizing that censorship of "offensive" language and censorship of ideas are two different things. By realizing that by refusing to answer or allow others to answer uncomfortable questions you reveal weakness and ignorance. If you bury them quickly only a few will know, but they will know. Every time you do it more know. Everyman will know.

Everyman is always here to see what you say and do. Sometimes everyman takes action and sometimes everyman just watches and learns, but everyman is always there to see unless you live in a cave, never come out, and bar the door behind you. Then everyman will just dismiss you as irrelevant.

Are you going to try to argue with everyman? Pointless. You will never convince everyman that the truth isn't the truth. Are you going to try to censor everyman? Well, then you should have a blog instead of a forum. Are you going to try and bully and threaten and kick out everyman? Everyman has the might of the world.

I joined this forum for the sole purpose of pointing out that you belong only one place. Behind the walls of your citadel at GTA. Gene was not a saint, but he did better understand the position of everyman than you do. He was arrogant sometimes, but nothing like you are. He didn't quit because he thought you were better than him. He quit because he was old and sick and dying and of the evils available he thought there was a chance you might be the least evil. Take a little extra effort to honor him and and try to do a better job of proving him right.

I respect the difficulty of the job. I do not respect you personally. Don't confuse the two. You are not sick and dying (well, no more sick and dying than everyman) ,so you still have a chance to earn the respect of everyman through positive action instead of obedience thru censorship and punishment.

You may think that you have success because you have a level of "personal safety" by refusing to allow everyman to ask questions and discuss ideas, but you lose a lot as well. Not everyman will offer his opinions, and his skills, and his knowledge, and his experience because of it. Not everyman just wants to join to be part of a group. Everyman has something to contribute, but you refuse to allow everyman to do so. Make no mistake. Everyman sees that you do not just censor foul language.

I am Everyman, and I do read what is said on GTA from time to time, but I never contribute on GTA. You are the one to blame. Everyman has something to contribute, and everyman has a lot to contribute and cause growth, not just of your fiefdom but of the sport as a whole.

I am Everyman, but you could choose to be the better man. So far you have not.

Grumpy, Sorry for joining your forum just to raise heat. If you must remove this account I understand, but please atleast do not remove my message. If you leave my account now that I have one I may participate from time to time.

was gonna skip this but....

I was finally banned over a post that told a member......If you must have an FX do not buy directly from AOA moderate their profit by buy from Jim in Michigan and get his fantastic after sale support as well....thats bashing egh??

"Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum!
Has received multiple warnings from Admins. AoA bashing - Joe B bashing - etc...
This ban is not set to expire."

The Joe B stuff was in Jan 2014 ya sure have laid in wait for an excuse egh

yellow dont seem that hard to deal with now

I am sure glad I never knew you on AD....and ya so proud of growing membership and banning me .....are you so sure ya have me banned and I am not among your new posters??? IPs are so fluid LOL ....ya might wanna review every single new account since I was banned..,. and since ya have taken time to visit me over here I will be editing more linked photos very soon

No need to apologize . Enjoy your stay and hope to see you participate. How about showing us some of your toys.

Thanks
Grumpy

I am not everyman
 

I am direct and to the point and you KNOW that so when I say I am NOT EVERYMAN its true

I have no idea whom EVERYMAN is but you really should not IMPLY on GTA that its me ...because simply it is not me :eek:

not sure how i missed this thread
 

I seriously DOUBT the GTA forums rake in serious cash each month. Generally if one breaks the rules they get banned from any forum. Even this forum has a ban stick somewhere, though I don't know where Grumpy keeps it. :D


* also critter is not everyman unless he is using a PC not at his home

You can believe what you like about whether or not GTA brings in money and how much. I trust my source. You don't know me (and probably never will) so I understand if you don't trust what I say. Its ok. Everyman knows.

The rules are not consistently applied on GTA, and often some things are inflated and applied selectively to punish, censor, and bully those with opinions not shared by the management regardless of how well they behave. Everyman has read GTA for many years. Since it was a dot com

I am not critter. I am Everyman. If Ezman implied otherwise he is mistaken, but not the first mistake he has made. Sounds like he has chosen not to be the better man. Its his choice. What he does in his little world is his business, but I personally (me not everyman) would rather he stays there.

I do not know how much GTA makes each month and to be honest I do not care. It doesn't cost me any money to post there, so no skin off my back. Grumpy has the same opportunity to make money each month. If he were making a boatload would that be a problem ? Heck you could start a board and make the big money they are alleged to generate each month. I am SURE there are perks one gets from vendors and even that doesn't bother me.

Now not applying the rules equally or harassing someone with a valid issue is another thing. Granted it does get annoying to see someone post the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over. I can see eventually that person being told to ease up about it.

To me the bottom line is, not my playground I am just using the swing. ;-)

Your view
 

I am thinkin thats spot on (the bold section)

One Soured GTA Member
 

All I know is that I made a statement about how stupid It is for Californians to dump their water in the ocean in an effort to preserve a smelt (basically a minnow) and I got warned that if I made another post like that, I would get banned for two weeks. I did not make another post at all but I did reply to ezman in a PM. I ask him what he will do when the liberals come to take down his forum? Banned me for two weeks. Now when I go to GTA, it's not the same. I no longer feel the urge to help others. I also no longer find the interesting posts on a daily basis like I used to. Nobody is ever in the Chat room it seems. It's like the people who made the most interesting and helpful posts have all gone away. And it is sad.

Saw a recent post that was a negative experience by a customer of AOA they were immediately threatened with banning for bashing AOA. Guess ya must not state any negative stuff on anybody or its bashing???

Sorta defeats one of the functions of sharing information

A thread in the PCP section has them doing a hack job to a guys stock to take his money and then sent on his way with an expensive leaking rifle...the guy still likes AOA??? WTF???

Reputable dealer would have told him the stock was defective and skipped the sale and offered to get him a good rifle......NOT AOA....I think they earned their bashing many times over

many of the reasons above is also why I don't participate there anymore.
not going to get into the details as it's neither here nor there.
the most I'll do there is post pics of any fun shoots with members I get together with for those members I get together with.
a great group of guys who enjoy airguns like me.

I've not been on this forum in ages and have recently been banned from gta not once but twice. The facts are that Dez and rocker have totally destroyed the life work of Gene and Bob and he will try to defend his actions is such bogus ways.

Gta might boast a huge membership however most of us know those numbers are lies as so many have walked away or been pushed out. If Dez and his minions actually purged unused accts they'd loose so many sponsorship dollars they'd cry for years.

Make no mistake I'm no angel but I challenged them to step up and get GTA back to the great forum it once was and their answer was to swing their big bad ban hammer down. If they continue this course it won't be long before the "yes men" are the only ones active there

4 years of membership there and I was banned for stuff said on other forums....cowards and bullies are about the nicest things I've got to say about Dez and his little partner Rocker

Hey, least you were banned for stuff you said. I was banned for allowing this thread ! LMFAO

MY generic GTA reply lol
 

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/a...psaaxjos0x.jpg


I bet that one drives Him Nutz...shows how 2 faced he really is

Unfortunately GTA has decided not only to be how they are, but have now gotten another forum to begin down that dark path as well. Not only will you get banned on GTA, but now you will get censored or banned on another forum. One many of us joined when it seemed to have a lot of good people who quit participating at GTA because of censorship, hypocrisy, selective rules enforcement, poor definition of rules, forced bias by prohibiting any negative truths, because they couldn't even ask why or how, or for some other reason. Some were banned, but many others just walked away.

GTA is what it is. I don't think any of us will change them. Unfortunately they are trying to reach outside their sphere to attack people second hand on other forums as well. People who have long since given up on GTA. I don't talk about GTA or even think about them except when I see posts like this one. http://airgunguild.com/airgun-guild-...re!!!/msg13679 Now I don't think Travis is a bad guy. We aren't friends, and he has never done me any favors, jokes about shit eating dogs not withstanding. I think he has made a bald and blatant alignment though that will negatively impact how people see him. A few people posted up in defense... or in attack in his favor, but I see most folks remained silent so far. I have not posted on AG since except to withdraw a standing order on part of a group order from Travis. To be fair I didn't withdraw it just because of that post. I was thinking about withdrawing it anyway for financial reasons. I can afford it, but there are other things I want more. It did give me the impetuous to do it though. That last little push. I can make all those parts myself if I really want them anyway.

I'm pretty much an outsider everywhere. I've learned that being a joiner or a go-along can compromise my personal principles. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't have any respect for me, and I am ok with that. All I ever tried to do was live up to my own rules, and when I fail I am harder on myself than anybody. I can't honestly say I don't care what anybody thinks. Anybody who says that is lying either to themselves or others. I do try to brush it off (doing a poor job most days) and rationally make my own decisions. GTA is an emotional subject for many people and exacerbated by some tyrannical type behavior. Its hard to let it go and not say anything when you leave and it chases you elsewhere.

Dave EZMAN604. I implore you to change your megalomaniac type behavior and withdraw within your borders. Your acts of aggression and those of your henchman outside your realm are being noticed by others. Including your sponsors. Censorship within your realm are your business, but wielding that influence to attack people outside your borders solely for your own self interest is doing nothing but damage to you. I'd just as soon forget you exist and just talk about airguns honestly and openly with other airgun enthusiasts. That would be in the best interest of both you and me. I've rarely spoken of you or your dictatorship except when it has reached out into other areas on the offensive either actively in some cases, or thru third parties. I'm sure at your core there started out a good man in all of you. Please bring that back. Take the high road. You want to be respected leaders then act like it. Very few unbiased intelligent free thinkers have any respect for the path you have chosen.

While I suspect its possible that Travis gave in to blackmail and coercion of losing his gate and his sponsor status at GTA I am still disappointed. I am not disappointed by GTA though. In my opinion they have long used threats and intimidation to get their way. I almost expect that from some people there.

Good posts Bob. I really would have hoped Travis would refuse to be controlled by the GTA administration but I understand why he may want to keep the peace. Unfortunately, I don't always have the ability to stay silent when threads like that pop up, and as expected the faithful have started piling on and the sheep will likely soon follow.

I am seeing very GTA LIKE behavior now. I am so sorry to see it happen. If get threatened or banned over my posts here we will know the door has closed. LOL.

I just got banned from the guild for asking about Travis's motivation behind the thread. Bob Sterne sent me a PM warning basically saying I will face a vacation from the guild like I did on GTA if I didn't stop. I replied that I never took a forced vacation from GTA and Travis started the thread and therefore should expect some responses and questions.

Travis openly stated in the thread that he does not have to explain anything, so it looks like the guild will continue to be heavily influenced by GTA and he will hide his true motivation as needed.

It's his fiefdom, so it's his choice. Gee... sounds a lot like a conversation I once tried to have with the admin of the only forum that ever banned me. A private conversation so as to not rile everybody up. Oh well. They locked the thread by the way. In my opinion all such edicts should start out locked making it clear that there is to be no rational discussion on the subject.